For Jonathan Bailey, soon to be protagonist of season 2 of the Netflix period drama Bridgerton, dancing was not a choice. Very early on in his life, he decided that ballet was his passion, and by the age of eight, he had already done two productions. However, society and its strict gender roles of the time stained his prepubescent mind, and he stopped dancing, a decision he still regards as his biggest regret. Nevertheless, he persisted, and the challenges and gifts of the language of ballet have continued on with him to this day, informing his personal ethos and way of being as an artist.

Today, Bailey prides himself on performing in stories that help influence future generations in more holistic and positive realms. He speaks of Bridgerton as an opportunity to open the door for new ways of telling period pieces, including those who had been erased from the narrative.

Currently, the English actor will converse with his former, and soon to be current, director and Tony award-winner, Marianne Elliott. They worked together in the hit 2018 West End revival of Company, which landed him a 2019 Laurence Olivier Award for Best Actor in a Supporting Role in a Musical. And soon Bailey will star opposite Flaunt alum, Taron Egerton, in a production of Mike Bartlett’s Cock at The Ambassadors Theatre in London, directed, of course, by Elliott. Read below, as Bailey and Elliott alight on performance on stage and on screen, the magic of Shonda Rhimes, TV’s inclusivity itch, and more.

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Marianne Elliott: How did you get into acting in the first place? What made you think about it?

Jonathan Bailey: I don’t know if there was necessarily a thought, but I was a dancer in the local village hall. And then the teacher got approached by the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company) for kids to be in A Christmas Carol, and I got cast as Tiny Tim. I went to the local church near where I lived and sang “Where Is Love” for a lady who casts for the RSC, and that was that.

Did you know from then on that you wanted to be a performer?

What predated all of that was my Nana. She was really into Gilbert and Sullivan, and she took us to see Oliver! at The Palladium, as well. I remember two things: having extreme vertigo, working out that I was scared of heights, but then also I decided I wanna do that. I saw the kids on stage walking around, and I just turned to my parents and was like: that’s what I do now. That was when I was five.

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This explains why you are so physical because you’re really inside your body.

One of my biggest regrets—definitely in terms of society and what society says that children shouldn’t be doing in their gender roles or whatever that is—is that I gave up dancing at age 12 or 13. I was the only boy within like 50 miles who could do an arabesque, who was turning up to ballet classes anyway. So as a result of that, there was an interest from White Lodge, which is The Royal Ballet School. But I don’t think that’s necessarily a litmus test for supreme balletic prowess, but more than that, I was just a boy. And then my parents were not a part of the showbiz world that they looked desperately into somewhere where I could just dance all day. But then you need an education that’s as rounded as possible, and we worked out ways in which you can do that around it. I did for a while, but I just knew that being in ballet, I kept it a secret until year eight. I missed double maths every Wednesday or Thursday at the school I was at. I remember once I put my hand up and I said, ‘I don’t understand,’ and he went, ‘Because you miss double periods every week being a fairy.’ And I remember even then being like, ‘You can’t talk to me like that.’

But what made you give it up then?

I think that sense that ballet is just not going to be okay. And then you link that with sexuality, and you’re like, well, that’s a really easy portal. That’s a really easy way to allow people just to signal the fact that I’m, at that time, gay, but not talking about it. There was just no one there that did it. Actually, there’s this really interesting documentary about The Kings Cross Steelers, which is a gay rugby team. And it’s all about how being gay and queer is about reclaiming sports.

So, you felt you would be stigmatized as well as the fact that you knew that you were gay and you felt you would be stigmatized for that as well?

At that age, nothing is linear and nothing is very specific.

Where did you go to drama school?

I didn’t go to drama school. I rolled through from just doing the RSC. But then had really supportive parents who were a bit confused by it, they sort of understood. The rule was always just ‘Don’t miss school.’ And so then it became a weird... I was gonna say I was like Batman, but I probably was more like Robin, where I had a secret mask and a cloak and I could go off and then do it. I think there were only a few kids that were bearable, tolerable, of which I think I was one because of my parents keeping me grounded. I don’t think I was ever a dick actually. I think I was always sort of self-doubting as opposed to being like, “Bleh.” So that kind of helped.

You went to university?

I bailed. No. I just deferred forever.

Because you kept getting acting jobs.

Not getting signifi- cant work. It wasn’t always like, ‘It was going to be okay.’ The thing that I really remember is always being like, ‘I’m never going to work. I can’t get the job. I cannot get the jobs, that for whatever rea- son, feel really of great prestige and value.’ And then, I was continually surprised.

I don’t think that ever goes away. Even if you ended up being James Bond, you’d never think, ‘K, I’ve got the job of prestige. This is the end of my odyssey.’

You haven’t had the experience of having to hustle for it.

But for instance, I think hustling is much, much, much more helpful.

A hundred percent. Oh, my God. I would not wish it any other way, but I think there is probably now a generation with stream- ing platforms of people who I don’t think have ever had that.

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What is the difference between the processes of film and theater?

I think with film, so much of it is also in the edit and the con- struct of the producers and the directors. There’s so many cogs, and you’re a smaller cog in a bigger machine. I think obviously you get cast on what you come up with and the amount of work you do, or you don’t do, or whatever you need to do in order to get that thing. But it’s a personal and private process, which can be quite isolating or torturous depending on what it is. Whereas I think with theater, it’s a shared thing. You really luxuriate in the absolute deconstruction of character and story.

In theater, everybody’s cooking the stew together, and you see it growing. And therefore, I feel that the actor has more control about what their part is in the whole.

But it’s also brilliant. It’s a thrilling process, isn’t it? Because you know that it’s a safe environment, especially when you are working with someone where there are notes of magic, and it feels safe. But then there’s also other bigger productions for film and TV, like say Bridgerton.

I don’t suppose anyone knew what it was go- ing to become, you just trust the ingredients that you’ve got and the work that everyone’s doing and bringing into the writers’ room. It can pop, but it can also not.

And you’re not in control of that.

You’re just not in control of your character story really. And that’s what’s brilliant about theater is that, altogether, there’s also different handovers. Like when the director then steps away, which is always traumatic. But ultimately it’s the people who are on stage with the stage management and the amazing crew and the people who are in theater, who are in control of that story. And obviously, within that, you’re given a bit of license within the character and what you’re feeling that day. You could do something for TV and they could just use a shot of you from a different scene, just because they can construct every single moment. That’s what is extraordinary about Bridgerton is how beautifully it’s constructed and processed.

As in the writing or as in the editing?

Well, all of it. I think Shonda Rhimes famously says that the edit, as in going into post-production and actually getting into the editing suite, is the final draft of the script. So they see it as three different things. The one you write, the one that you then film, but then the final draft is that. So it’s quite nice. There’s something about filming, which is actually just like theater, which is similar in that you just have to be completely present. You do the work and then you throw the work away, and you just have to go and respond.

So talking about Bridgerton, then what would you be most proud about? You’ve done the second season, and it’s all about your character, isn’t it? What excites you most about Bridgerton?

On a very basic level, being in a period drama is just the absolute fucking shit. Isn’t it?

I mean, that’s seriously high production values.

I think the one myth that is really satisfying for me is playing a straight lead. That’s not something that I’ve always felt would be possible.

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Why?

Because, when I was in my early twenties, there were many people who were directly being told not to talk about their sexuality, and you have various different people’s opinions on whether coming out affects your career. And I think that is so true of time. Right now I think that is definitely changing. I think that the conversations are so nuanced and complicated, and it’s really hard to give a soundbite, but I’m sure in a few years I will be able to. But I would say that’s what I’m most proud of because it felt like I haven’t been cast because of sexuality and that’s something that Chris Van Dusen said in an interview. But I had a niggling sort of suspicion that maybe a show like that, which is so inclusive and empowers and raises people of color, it’s also elevating in a political way, which is really, really amazing to be able to not only do this sort of gorgeously delivered period drama but one that actually has a political resonance. I do think that it’s changed the way that drama will be cast and period dramas will become, going forward. And I think there is something about it, which is like the before and after Bridgerton, which feels great because it’s always great to be doing something that is rooted in something that you can really believe in.

I think you’re at the forefront of all of that really, aren’t you? Especially because it’s a high profile part in a high profile TV series that’s hugely popular and massive, even in America. You’re probably one of the first actors who is playing a straight part, but it’s very open about your own sexuality that you are not straight.

You know, there’s streets in London where one side of the street, everyone will know someone who’s gay and they’re really accepting. And the other side of the street, you don’t mention it. So the idea of reaching the whole of America is interesting to see how that plays out. But, my God, do I feel like if there’s ever a show to be in to do that, it’s this. It’s robust and sumptuous. The idea that you could do something that is somehow opening doors.

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It feels like it opens a lot of doors, doesn’t it? It’s very feminist, I would say. And it’s also very inclusive.

Like making Queen Charlotte a woman of color. It’s theorized that she was biracial, but it’s taking these nuggets and really flipping it. I hope that gay actors now, or non-straight actors, will be able to call their agent and go, ‘I’m going, I’ve seen Bridgerton. And I know that guy.’ Cause that’s what it is. It’s about empowering that side of it, because that’s where it’s really the grassroots thing. That’s where empowerment comes. Hopefully, it just helps anyone who doesn’t quite understand the nuances of it all, who’s just going ‘you can’t do that.’ People in positions of power, hopefully they’ll say, ‘Oh, it worked.’ Of course, they’ll say that because it does work.

But that’s the problem, isn’t it? Being prescriptive about gay actors playing gay parts because the flip side of that is that only straight actors can play straight parts, and that just doesn’t feel inclusive at all. But this is really complicated because there is an access point thing, and I wonder if it’s universally felt. What I’ve always understood is that everyone is working to a point where everyone can play everything within their race, and there are boundaries for it in that sense. But in order to get there, there has to be space taken up at that table, and if there is a table that’s allocated in a party that says, ‘actually this is for non-straight people only and we’re gonna make that,’ well that means every role that is non-straight is actually non-straight only. That means that those people will get to go into the party. Otherwise, they’re waiting in the queue, but in the queue you have to be straight in order to get into the party. Then once you’re in the party and everyone sits down, after like a few years, everyone goes to the mosh pit.

So, what are you most excited about with Cock?

Working with you again, absolutely number one! You know well after a traumatic couple of years, and continually traumatic, to go in there and really show everyone what the hell they’re miss- ing and why the government needs to get behind us. It’s been hard, hasn’t it?

Yeah, it’s been really hard.

I remember when we talked about Cock for the first time, and then we talked about the play. We were just talking about how it goes back to... the ultimate type of storytelling, isn’t it? It is the antithesis of what we’re talking about with an original TV series, isn’t it?

Yes, I suppose it is very, very opposite. Everybody has to participate in the imagination, and that includes the audience.

I’m feeling rooted as well. Because the other thing, which I’m really excited about, is that feeling of groundedness, and knowing that actually it’s an immediate thing, and you know who’s watching it, and you can feel them in their part of it. It’s alive and it’s electric and it flies. A comparison to that is a show coming out on Netflix when you’re in lockdown and you get a sense that it’s doing well.

[Bridgerton] came out in lockdown, didn’t it? Now, you’re in a room with your 16-year-old Johnny the day before he gets his GCSE results. What would you tell him?

It’s gonna be alright. It’s gonna be alright.

Johnathan, I think we’re probably nearly done here. You’re standing in front of a bulldozer about to tear down the very last stage in the world. What would you say to make them stop?

I beseech you.